1
General coding questions / Re: indexing arrays in shader
« on: March 13, 2008 »
LOL imagine all the clouds/terrains and marble textures we would see in 4ks :-) I agree it would be damn useful :-(
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2
Projects / Re: 1k Music
« on: March 13, 2008 »
Hmmm from pouet:
huh... and using those .wav:s doesn't count as using someone elses tune without permission? visuals aren't too impressive either imho, but thumbdown for the sound.
Thats a risky point too. Potentially you could be banned for using a 3rd party tune without permission. Looking at roseshank though, they got away with it...so, could be worth a try. I just think it would be so much more obvious at 1k. Ah well one way to find out...
Shockwave, thanks for the translation, I couldnt follow the conversation anymore.
huh... and using those .wav:s doesn't count as using someone elses tune without permission? visuals aren't too impressive either imho, but thumbdown for the sound.
Thats a risky point too. Potentially you could be banned for using a 3rd party tune without permission. Looking at roseshank though, they got away with it...so, could be worth a try. I just think it would be so much more obvious at 1k. Ah well one way to find out...
Shockwave, thanks for the translation, I couldnt follow the conversation anymore.
3
General coding questions / Re: indexing arrays in shader
« on: March 13, 2008 »
Ill say this again : GLSL is not C! Kinda makes you admire people who make shaders work though doesnt it :-).
The standard has only one chance of succeeding : if board manufacturers implement it correctly. Otherwise nobody will use it. You see Nvidias little game here. Pissed at the fact CG wasnt chosen to be the OpenGL standard (giving them ... oh an 18 month lead on ATi) but instead a good standard proposed by 3dlabs, they have deliberately placed less resources in getting glsl right and in some cases deliberately made choices that hijack it. Its despicable. Its business.
Meanwhile ATi are much more correct but fail in lots of areas (like arrays).
Whilst its true you can create an array of any type, you can only do so with a constructor, not a definition. Therefore:
float a[2]={1.0,2.0}; is completely illegal but Nvidia allow it, screwing us all by undermining the standard and locking you into their hardware with your shader.
Meanwhile Ati allow the legal syntax:
float a[2]=float[2](1.0,2.0);
Great! Only their hardware doesnt support it!!!
So in the end they are as bad as each other when it comes to glsl.
So yes, Rbraz, you can create - through constructor syntax only - arrays of any type. They wont work though. And no array declarations in C form are legal even in next gen shaders. Don't ask me why but its so. But dont misunderstand - you should be able to treat arrays as first class citizens in version 120 - but it simply does not work...there is specs and reality. I think your GLSL book also says there is a noise function...but only 3dlabs cards ever implemented it.
Taj
The standard has only one chance of succeeding : if board manufacturers implement it correctly. Otherwise nobody will use it. You see Nvidias little game here. Pissed at the fact CG wasnt chosen to be the OpenGL standard (giving them ... oh an 18 month lead on ATi) but instead a good standard proposed by 3dlabs, they have deliberately placed less resources in getting glsl right and in some cases deliberately made choices that hijack it. Its despicable. Its business.
Meanwhile ATi are much more correct but fail in lots of areas (like arrays).
Whilst its true you can create an array of any type, you can only do so with a constructor, not a definition. Therefore:
float a[2]={1.0,2.0}; is completely illegal but Nvidia allow it, screwing us all by undermining the standard and locking you into their hardware with your shader.
Meanwhile Ati allow the legal syntax:
float a[2]=float[2](1.0,2.0);
Great! Only their hardware doesnt support it!!!
So in the end they are as bad as each other when it comes to glsl.
So yes, Rbraz, you can create - through constructor syntax only - arrays of any type. They wont work though. And no array declarations in C form are legal even in next gen shaders. Don't ask me why but its so. But dont misunderstand - you should be able to treat arrays as first class citizens in version 120 - but it simply does not work...there is specs and reality. I think your GLSL book also says there is a noise function...but only 3dlabs cards ever implemented it.
Taj
4
General chat / Re: Icons Art & Demo Event 2008
« on: March 13, 2008 »
Rbraz,
The rules say "no import by ordinal" which is a technique crinkler uses when certain flags are set, but I doubt most people realise this or that they mean to ban certain uses of flags in crinkler. Still best to check...
No 4k only 1k? Wow thats unexpected. Presumably they expect TBC to enter and probably loonies. In which case forget it, the TBC compressor (used for tracie) was 160 bytes better than crinkler last I checked and it could be closer to 200 now. Theres no way to compete. For those who dont know, 200 bytes advantage at 1k is about the equivalent of one team being allowed to use 6k entries for a 4k compo (if you get the comparison). The advantage is insurmountable.
The rules say "no import by ordinal" which is a technique crinkler uses when certain flags are set, but I doubt most people realise this or that they mean to ban certain uses of flags in crinkler. Still best to check...
No 4k only 1k? Wow thats unexpected. Presumably they expect TBC to enter and probably loonies. In which case forget it, the TBC compressor (used for tracie) was 160 bytes better than crinkler last I checked and it could be closer to 200 now. Theres no way to compete. For those who dont know, 200 bytes advantage at 1k is about the equivalent of one team being allowed to use 6k entries for a 4k compo (if you get the comparison). The advantage is insurmountable.
5
General coding questions / Re: indexing arrays in shader
« on: March 13, 2008 »
Frea,
dead right, arrays are not first class citizens until recently and most cards still dont support it well (if at all). This is huge problem in writing shaders at the moment. BTW its even worse. Nvidia allow illegal syntax for array declaration and then people think ati suck - but its because Nvidias GLSL compiler is very dodgy, being derived from their Cg compiler and ... well, not correctly.
Generally, in order to avoid this problem, arrays can be put in textures - if you only need them in pixel shaders. Otherwise, rethink and use vectors or matrices.
Its a real pain right now.
dead right, arrays are not first class citizens until recently and most cards still dont support it well (if at all). This is huge problem in writing shaders at the moment. BTW its even worse. Nvidia allow illegal syntax for array declaration and then people think ati suck - but its because Nvidias GLSL compiler is very dodgy, being derived from their Cg compiler and ... well, not correctly.
Generally, in order to avoid this problem, arrays can be put in textures - if you only need them in pixel shaders. Otherwise, rethink and use vectors or matrices.
Its a real pain right now.
6
General coding questions / Re: indexing arrays in shader
« on: March 12, 2008 »
If the compiler thinks the hardware wont cope (if it cant spot the obvious here and leaves the array access as dynamic), it could signal the drivers to run in software. Try updating drivers maybe? One other thing to try is using correct types. You may be avoiding a compiler rule by not having floats (0.0). Its a wild stab in the dark but worth a try. Lastly check the string returned by compile and link...you may find a complete explanation there. Generally under shader model 110 arrays are not first class citizens and cause huge problems. Under shader model 120 (#version 120) the code usually compiles and links fine but then often hardware doesn't cope.
I guess it just an example so my next syggestion is no use, but if you really want an array of 4 items, couldnt you use vec4 ?
I guess it just an example so my next syggestion is no use, but if you really want an array of 4 items, couldnt you use vec4 ?
7
Projects / Re: 1k Music
« on: March 12, 2008 »
OK I just listened again and no way. Its impossible to generate this which means you must be playing back a stored tune- some example that comes with XP. I remember a 4k that did this once, but I never did find out the location of the music.
OK now I found it - winxp out of the box experience music.
C:\WINDOWS\system32\oobe\images\title.wma
:-) ooo that would be risky :-) you'd either kill or be killed. I'm not sure what the loops are for or what "fx" you are using.
I coded it up and its 50 bytes when crinklered in C. Va!n if you want to see a 1k with it , say so and I'll send it to you. I wont post it though incase you will go ahead and use this technique. If you decide not to, say so and I'll post the 1k here (though I wont launch it at Pouet or anywhere because I think people would kill me for it).
Taj
OK now I found it - winxp out of the box experience music.
C:\WINDOWS\system32\oobe\images\title.wma
:-) ooo that would be risky :-) you'd either kill or be killed. I'm not sure what the loops are for or what "fx" you are using.
I coded it up and its 50 bytes when crinklered in C. Va!n if you want to see a 1k with it , say so and I'll send it to you. I wont post it though incase you will go ahead and use this technique. If you decide not to, say so and I'll post the 1k here (though I wont launch it at Pouet or anywhere because I think people would kill me for it).
Taj
8
Challenges & Competitions / Re: [TRANSITION] plasmagirls
« on: March 11, 2008 »
Love it. Plus, you know, JLH. The crossfade is great. Going to be hard to beat that.
9
Projects / Re: Bloom Shader test
« on: March 11, 2008 »
Rbraz,
I press s... but when I do the fps counter disappears and the glow is drawn, but I cant get both on screen at the same time ... without glow its 50 fps.
Taj
I press s... but when I do the fps counter disappears and the glow is drawn, but I cant get both on screen at the same time ... without glow its 50 fps.
Taj
10
C / C++ /C# / Re: Tiny, tiny OpenGL window and shader setup code
« on: March 11, 2008 »
Think I got confused...never mind :-) glad it works. Have fun.
11
C / C++ /C# / Re: Tiny, tiny OpenGL window and shader setup code
« on: March 11, 2008 »
OK Zplex,
in the archive is a wholly contained VC project with my source for my latest 1k (chocolux). This is a good base which you may strip the shaders out of and replace with your own.
Download the archive and unpack
Then get crinkler from here:http://www.crinkler.net/ (the license of crinkler means I cant include it)
Put crinkler in your project directory but rename it to link.exe
Double click project file (dont try to start a new project yourself)
--- up to here it all works with VC Express (checked)
VC 2006 .NET ... I hope it imports OK.
If not, we'll do it the hard way :-)
Taj
in the archive is a wholly contained VC project with my source for my latest 1k (chocolux). This is a good base which you may strip the shaders out of and replace with your own.
Download the archive and unpack
Then get crinkler from here:http://www.crinkler.net/ (the license of crinkler means I cant include it)
Put crinkler in your project directory but rename it to link.exe
Double click project file (dont try to start a new project yourself)
--- up to here it all works with VC Express (checked)
VC 2006 .NET ... I hope it imports OK.
If not, we'll do it the hard way :-)
Taj
12
Projects / Re: Bloom Shader test
« on: March 11, 2008 »
Rbraz,
works fine here (xp, sp2, laptop x600). My only comment is the glow "flickers" like a candle, usually caused by rendering your scene at too low a resolution. However, we might also call it an effect :-)
Taj
works fine here (xp, sp2, laptop x600). My only comment is the glow "flickers" like a candle, usually caused by rendering your scene at too low a resolution. However, we might also call it an effect :-)
Taj
13
C / C++ /C# / Re: Tiny, tiny OpenGL window and shader setup code
« on: March 11, 2008 »
zplex,
no you dont need to. It sounds like you are trying to compile as a console application not a windows application. I'll upload a minimal framework (give me a bit of time) and I hope you can import into VS2006 (I'm using VS Express).
Good to see you here.
Taj
no you dont need to. It sounds like you are trying to compile as a console application not a windows application. I'll upload a minimal framework (give me a bit of time) and I hope you can import into VS2006 (I'm using VS Express).
Good to see you here.
Taj
14
Projects / Re: Bloom Shader test
« on: March 09, 2008 »
Can you send an image of what it should look like - I just get a red (pink) circle. The shader doesnt seem to work so Im trying things but an image for final goal would be good.
15
Projects / Re: Bloom Shader test
« on: March 08, 2008 »
On second thoughts, debugging by eye - so highly unlikely to be right but the line
looks unlikely to be right to me. How many components does your texture have? I guess 4 as you are loading PNGs, so this line would try to stuff 6 components into into a vec4 and fail I guess.
ATi drivers have always been less forgiving of type conversions than Nvidia ones.
Code: [Select]
gl_FragColor = clamp(sum*sum*0.04 + texture2D(bgl_RenderedTexture, texcoord),0.0,1.0);\
looks unlikely to be right to me. How many components does your texture have? I guess 4 as you are loading PNGs, so this line would try to stuff 6 components into into a vec4 and fail I guess.
ATi drivers have always been less forgiving of type conversions than Nvidia ones.
16
Projects / Re: Bloom Shader test
« on: March 08, 2008 »
Rbraz,
in order to help fix this the whole code would be much easier, otherwsie I have to go and write quite a bit of c code around it.
Taj
in order to help fix this the whole code would be much easier, otherwsie I have to go and write quite a bit of c code around it.
Taj
17
Projects / Re: Bloom Shader test
« on: March 07, 2008 »
Rbraz,
I have d3dx9_32.dll but all I get is a black screen. I guess the shader is Nvidia specific right now as Im running on a x600 ati, drivers from feb 2008.
Tried it on x1950 too - still just a black screen, no images or shader.
Taj
I have d3dx9_32.dll but all I get is a black screen. I guess the shader is Nvidia specific right now as Im running on a x600 ati, drivers from feb 2008.
Tried it on x1950 too - still just a black screen, no images or shader.
Taj
18
Useful links / Re: Ideas for your next demo...
« on: March 06, 2008 »
wow - gorgeous textures and HDR
19
ASM / Re: Where to get some good ASM Tutorials
« on: March 05, 2008 »
Rbraz,
I'm going through one of the tutorials you suggested step by step and its very good so firstly, thankyou. Now obviously the next thing is to code something in anger, I'm not a proud man (in this way) so I am happy to work from existing code and adapt. My question therefore is would I find most examles in MASM or in FASM.
Also when you say OOk asm can compress - are we talking compressing 4ks or 256b intros - which I thought nobody compresses (am I wrong)? Can you clarify a bit here please?
Thanks,
Taj
I'm going through one of the tutorials you suggested step by step and its very good so firstly, thankyou. Now obviously the next thing is to code something in anger, I'm not a proud man (in this way) so I am happy to work from existing code and adapt. My question therefore is would I find most examles in MASM or in FASM.
Also when you say OOk asm can compress - are we talking compressing 4ks or 256b intros - which I thought nobody compresses (am I wrong)? Can you clarify a bit here please?
Thanks,
Taj
20
General chat / Re: Happy Birthday Hotshot
« on: March 04, 2008 »
Just code. Dont worry about pressure HSH. A writer writes, a coder codes and a fletcher ... er well you know. Happy birthday.