Author Topic: C# - What do you think about it ?  (Read 6093 times)

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Offline benny!

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C# - What do you think about it ?
« on: March 18, 2007 »
Hi.

I wonder what you guys think about C# ? Does anyone has any experience with it ?

I am interesting in the pro and cons concerning in the following fields of this language :


* Game Development ( Windows and WindowsMobile )

* Application Development ( Webservices, WindowsMobile and Windows Applications )

* other Demo- / Multimediadevelopment ?


If you already knew Java development - it would be really interesting to know the
comparision from C# to Java.

Btw. Who has the .NET Framework installed on his machine?
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Offline Jim

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Re: C# - What do you think about it ?
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2007 »
I haven't used it myself, but some of my colleagues have used it for RAD and for some tools we've released.  It's supposedly very quick to write good UI code and for online stuff.  I don't believe it's a pixel-bashing language...  I should learn it really.

Quote
Btw. Who has the .NET Framework installed on his machine?
Nearly everyone?  Isn't .NET1.0 part of XP and .NET2.0 part of XP SP2?

V3.0 is out soon :D

Jim
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Offline Shockwave

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Re: C# - What do you think about it ?
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2007 »
Yep, .net is on here and my laptop too.
Shockwave ^ Codigos
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Offline benny!

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Re: C# - What do you think about it ?
« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2007 »
Thanks for your answers.

Guess that it will be at least shipped out with Windows Vista. Not sure if
it is automatically installed with XP.

Furthermore, there is also an official microsoft support for game- / multiemedia
development called Coding4Fun.

Hmm .. I'll think I will keep an eye on that ;)
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Offline Jim

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Re: C# - What do you think about it ?
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2007 »
It's definitely there in Vista (V3.0).  I've just been reading that .net framework has NEVER been installed by default in XP, it's always been an update.

Jim
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Offline benny!

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Re: C# - What do you think about it ?
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2007 »
@Jim:

Thanks for the info, Jim. Interesting to know that it's automatically installed with
Vista. That's of course very promising for the future and acceptance of C# or any
other NET language.

I might have a go with it ...
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Offline rdc

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Re: C# - What do you think about it ?
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2007 »
Most folks that were VB 6 programmers switched over to C# rather than VB.Net (if they switched to .Net at all). If you compare the two languages, the syntax is almost identical between the two and many said it was easier to learn a new language than try to re-think VB syntax.

The real question is, will .Net make it in the long term? I have my doubts. With the emergence of Web 2.0 and Ajax, which is predominated by Java and JS both of which are readily available at little to no cost. It also appears that Vista isn't garnering the attention of the business community as MS hoped. I have read many articles where IT managers are taking a wait-and-see approach to the new OS, which will significantly impact .Net acceptance in the long-term.

The other problem here in the US is the continued outsourcing of IT jobs to India and other countries. And I just read an article in an Australian newspaper that outsourcing is impacting them as well, so it isn't just a US phenomenon. IT majors are declining at a significant rate in many countries, down almost 50% in some universities here, which will also impact the adoption of newish technologies such as .Net. Remember it is new grads taking over programming teams that often times drive the adoption of a new technology; the old hats are just as often content to keep using what they already have.

There is also the question of the spiraling cost of upgrading the corporate technology infrastructure, both in time, expertise and money. Many (maybe most) companies are not using the newest computers and are reluctant to upgrade, and Vista will probably require a major upgrade to the infrastructure. Couple that with the new subscription based licenses that MS now requires and for many companies the ROI is questionable with Vista and .Net. Especially when there are very good FOSS alternatives out there that are free or low cost.

Offline Clyde

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Re: C# - What do you think about it ?
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2007 »
Dude they are also outsourcing to India here in the UK too.
Still Putting The IT Into Gravy
If Only I Knew Then What I Know Now.

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Offline benny!

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Re: C# - What do you think about it ?
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2007 »
@rdc:

Thanks for pointing out your opinion. The main reason I was starting this post is
to find out what you think about C# as the successor of C++. Some ppl complain
that it is easier to write more robust code with a 100% object orientated language
like java.

So the key question is - where does the future of programming languages develop
in the next 5 to 10 years. Will we still remain and focus on C++ only. Or will Java
grow. Or is the .NET platform the way to go ( including ASP.NET, C# and so on ) ?

Then again, I am thinking about the question if a NET framework is really necessary
when we also have the Java Virtual Machine ? Where are the pros and cons here ?

Would like to hear more opinions about that ...
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Offline rdc

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Re: C# - What do you think about it ?
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2007 »
I think C++ is here to stay, regardless of how .Net turns out. It has become the standard programming language, especially for things like games and graphics. I also don't see .Net replacing Java either, especially with Ajax being almost totally based on Java. C# was supposed to be a Java killer, but it will never attain that status. As far as I am concerned, .Net is useful only if you are planning on working for a MS-centric shop.

You will end up being much more marketable in the long-term by having a good skill set in C++ and Java and a good understanding of Ajax principles. In fact, even if you ended up at a MS shop, you will probably get into the door faster by knowing C++ well, even if you haven't used .Net.

Offline benny!

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Re: C# - What do you think about it ?
« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2007 »
@rdc:

Well. Comparing Ajax with C# is a bit risky. Ajax is just Javascript and XML processing.
Nothing more actually. Comparing C# with Java - I guess you might be right - that due
to the long time Java is already on the market - it might be rather hard for M$ and .NET
to really compete with Java unless you are not a M$ lover.

Nevertheless, speaking of techniques for web development I think learning some AJAX
frameworks is a good choice. IMHO AJAX is the solution for Web2.0. But that's just my
2 cents  ::)


@Jim:

You wrote that C# is used in your company ? Could you explain what kind of application
you primarily use it for ?
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Offline Jim

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Re: C# - What do you think about it ?
« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2007 »
Rapid development of tools which require a windows UI.  We have a dept in the US who might be using it for something more substantial, though I'm not sure.

C++ is here to stay.  Java is here to stay.  Microsoft will probably replace C# in the next 5-10 years, just as they've replaced MFC, ATL, VisualJ++ etc, etc.

Outsourcing to India is here to stay while India is still cheaper to develop than locally.  They're churning out a lot of engineers right now so there's plenty of staff available, but as soon as workload > available staff it'll get more expensive and we'll all be looking for somewhere else :)

No sensible IT department is going to touch Vista until a year has gone past.

Jim
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Offline benny!

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Re: C# - What do you think about it ?
« Reply #12 on: March 20, 2007 »
...
C++ is here to stay.  Java is here to stay.  Microsoft will probably replace C# in the next 5-10 years, just as they've replaced MFC, ATL, VisualJ++ etc, etc.
...

And that's actually the real question behind. They dropped MFC, ATL etc. from the VC Express version.
It seems they totally focus on the NET framework. It doesn't matter in which language you want to
programm - if it is Visual Basic .NET, J#, C# or even C++ (choosing CRL as project type).

So, even if you choose C++ as your primar language - is it worth learning for the native Win32 platform
or should you start focussing on the NET framework. There are some changes concerning this - if you
think about cin/cout vs. System.Console.WriteLine or the memory management because
the NET framework supplies a gargabe collector ( see : gcnew ).
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Offline Jim

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Re: C# - What do you think about it ?
« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2007 »
I'm a big Win32 fan, but that makes me unusual - most people did UIs in MFC (which still builds btw, there's just no new dev going in to it).  Noone I know codes raw Win32 except me!
I want to learn some .NET and some C# and also get really good at C++.  It's a question of time.  Apart from Java/J2EE, that's where the all the jobs are right now.

Jim
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Offline benny!

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Re: C# - What do you think about it ?
« Reply #14 on: March 21, 2007 »
@Jim:
Sounds promising ;)

@topic:
If anybody is intersted about using/accessing the NET FRAMEWORK with C++ I made a
little helloworld program in the following thread :

http://dbfinteractive.com/index.php?topic=1603.msg24277#new
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