Author Topic: What are you working on at the moment?  (Read 139870 times)

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Offline Rbz

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Re: What are you working on at the moment?
« Reply #120 on: October 29, 2007 »
It looks really nice Chris :)
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Offline Hotshot

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Re: What are you working on at the moment?
« Reply #121 on: October 30, 2007 »
I am working on HELLFIRE for COBRA 2D which I am testing the game at the moment.

The graphics will be change. I dont know if I could add the background and foregrounds to make things more interesting as you see games like R - TYPE.


 :cheers:

Offline Shockwave

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Re: What are you working on at the moment?
« Reply #122 on: October 31, 2007 »
Looks like you have a little masking problem there Hotshot :)
Shockwave ^ Codigos
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Offline Hotshot

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Re: What are you working on at the moment?
« Reply #123 on: October 31, 2007 »
Quote
Looks like you have a little masking problem there Hotshot

I have sort the masking out. I designing Screen layout to make things more alive.

cheers

Offline Stonemonkey

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Re: What are you working on at the moment?
« Reply #124 on: November 03, 2007 »
Going back a couple of posts, I wouldn't really call bending normals in any sort of bad way cheating. Normals (in this type of instance) are only really used to give some sort of approximation for environmental effects anyway like shading/normal mapping, cubemapping/refraction/reflection which can all be done in varying ways with different results.

imo, the 'I did this by cheating' thing in demos should only really come into it when the machine is made to do something (or looks like it's doing something) it really shouldn't be capable of which back in the amiga days was probably a lot more common.

Cheers, Fryer.

Offline taj

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Re: What are you working on at the moment?
« Reply #125 on: November 03, 2007 »
Going back a couple of posts, I wouldn't really call bending normals in any sort of bad way cheating. Normals (in this type of instance) are only really used to give some sort of approximation for environmental effects anyway like shading/normal mapping, cubemapping/refraction/reflection which can all be done in varying ways with different results.

imo, the 'I did this by cheating' thing in demos should only really come into it when the machine is made to do something (or looks like it's doing something) it really shouldn't be capable of which back in the amiga days was probably a lot more common.

Cheers, Fryer.

Bending normals based on an unrelated physical characteristic such as intensity of lighting or direction of viewer is what I mean by cheating.

I agree what you see in those images could be simulated in other ways, maybe at 50 fps, maybe in 1.1k (current exe size). Maybe. Though I really seriously doubt it. I *know* you cant do it with software rendering at those resolutions and I'm 80% sure you cant do it with traditional opengl and dynamic cube mapping, though if anyonme wants to prove me wrong, I'll be happy to see the code!!!

I was trying to point out that raytracing isnt seen as a methodology to cheat and create unusual effects normally and I think this is a shame. Most people spend forever tuning performance or lighting to be fast and CORRECT. People have spent years and years finding ways to do multi-pass, environment mapped, multitextured polygons to get "effects". Nobody seems to be doing this with raytracing yet.

If its just the first images dont convince you then have a look again, and if you can think of *any* way to do a real time wada basin in normal opengl or software rendering...I'll eat my code :-)
No way can *that* be done with environment mapping.

http://sizecoding.blogspot.com

Chris

« Last Edit: November 03, 2007 by chris »
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Offline Stonemonkey

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Re: What are you working on at the moment?
« Reply #126 on: November 03, 2007 »
Hi chris, I think you've taken my post the wrong way. What I meant was that there are lots of things you could do with normals that I wouldn't consider to be any sort of 'cheat', if you could do some sort of approximation of your raytracing with traditional opengl then maybe that would be if it gave any speed advantages and let you squeeze more out of your code.

Techniques like cubemapping, normalmapping and specular highlighting with rasterised graphics are all pretty rough approximations and you can mess around with how you deal with the normals and stuff to achieve the effect you want, in raytracing I see nothing about cheating or being bad with doing the same.

cheers, Fryer.

Offline taj

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Re: What are you working on at the moment?
« Reply #127 on: November 03, 2007 »
Stonemonkey,

by cheating I dont mean bad. I mean simply non-realistic. In essence anything that veers from a closer approximation to Kajiyas lighting model which is what raytracing and other global illumination techniques are striving to achieve with varying degrees of success.



Chris
« Last Edit: November 03, 2007 by chris »
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Offline slippy

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Re: What are you working on at the moment?
« Reply #128 on: November 03, 2007 »
Uh hey ...

did I mention that the birthday present you gave to shocky works perfect on  my PS2.0 (!) based gfx card??! :)

I knew it's been done for PS3.0 - you already mentioned that some time ... but I tried my luck and it worked like a charme for me ... :)

And it's even fast (~30-50fps) ...

So ... I really like what you're doing chris ...

Cheers,
SLiPPY

P.S.: I use to have a ATI Radeon X1650Pro (which IMHO is PS2.0 only, is it?!)

Offline Stonemonkey

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Re: What are you working on at the moment?
« Reply #129 on: November 03, 2007 »
Ah right chris, slightly different ideas about what cheating would be, I think of it as approximately copying an existing technique or effect by finding a cheaper alternative with less accurate results but faster or maybe with more hardcoded/less flexible code.

Cheers, Fryer.

Offline taj

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Re: What are you working on at the moment?
« Reply #130 on: November 03, 2007 »
did I mention that the birthday present you gave to shocky works perfect on  my PS2.0 (!) based gfx card??! :)

And it's even fast (~30-50fps) ...

P.S.: I use to have a ATI Radeon X1650Pro (which IMHO is PS2.0 only, is it?!)

I am amazed. OK I have ati x800 - ps2.0 and it doesnt work. I think though one of the key things is that a true ps3.0 card can run any number of instructions. I know my x800 is limited to 256 instructions. Mayeb you have a ps2.0 card that can run any number of instructions...sort of inbetween - which would explain it. Anyway, I'm chuffed. I also found nvidia 6 and 7 series can run it. I have no idea why shockie cant yet :-(. Also I know latest drivers help in some cases.

If anyone else tries it please let me know if it works or not and what card you have. Definitley anything below x800 or 6 series Nvidia will fail.

Chris
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Offline slippy

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Re: What are you working on at the moment?
« Reply #131 on: November 03, 2007 »
Oh chris ... I'm really sorry - apologies for not knowing the capabilities of my hardware ... eheh ...

after reading your answer to my post I was curious about what my card is capable of ... so I leeched the ShaderMark 2.1 and here're the results ...

Quote


ShaderMark v2.1 - DirectX 9 HLSL Pixel Shader Benchmark - ToMMTi-Systems (http://www.tommti-systems.com)

video mode / device info
(1024x768) X8R8G8B8 (D24X8) vram used 115343360
HAL (pure hw vp): Radeon X1650 GTO (Anti-Detect-Mode: off, gamma correction: DAC)



options

pixel shader version: Pixel Shader 3_0

results:
shader  1 (                                           Pixel Shader Precision Test): pixel shader 1.1 full precision: s23e8
          (                                           Pixel Shader Precision Test): pixel shader 1.4 full precision: s23e8
          (                                           Pixel Shader Precision Test): pixel shader 2.0 full precision: s23e8
          (                                           Pixel Shader Precision Test): pixel shader 2.0 partial precision: s23e8
          (                                           Pixel Shader Precision Test): pixel shader 3.0 full precision: s23e8
          (                                           Pixel Shader Precision Test): pixel shader 3.0 partial precision: s23e8

shader  2 (                                            Per Pixel Diffuse Lighting -   ps_3_0):    538 fps     1.8581 mspf       2693 rendered frames
shader  3 (                            Per Pixel Directional Light Shader (Phong) -   ps_3_0):    450 fps     2.2220 mspf       2252 rendered frames
shader  4 (                                  Per Pixel Point Light Shader (Phong) -   ps_3_0):    461 fps     2.1671 mspf       2309 rendered frames
shader  5 (                                   Per Pixel Spot Light Shader (Phong) -   ps_3_0):    384 fps     2.6062 mspf       1920 rendered frames
shader  6 (                                        Per Pixel Anisotropic Lighting -   ps_3_0):    450 fps     2.2230 mspf       2251 rendered frames
shader  7 (                                         Per Pixel Fresnel Reflections -   ps_3_0):    410 fps     2.4409 mspf       2050 rendered frames
shader  8 (                                          Per Pixel Car Surface Shader -   ps_3_0):    272 fps     3.6766 mspf       1361 rendered frames
shader  9 (                                         Per Pixel Environment Mapping -   ps_3_0):    567 fps     1.7638 mspf       2837 rendered frames
shader 10 (                                    Per Pixel Environment Bump Mapping -   ps_3_0):    465 fps     2.1513 mspf       2326 rendered frames
shader 11 (                                                Per Pixel Bump Mapping -   ps_3_0):    422 fps     2.3693 mspf       2112 rendered frames
shader 12 (                                       Per Pixel Shadowed Bump Mapping -   ps_3_0):    200 fps     5.0028 mspf       1001 rendered frames
shader 13 (                                        Per Pixel Veined Marble Shader -   ps_3_0):    183 fps     5.4790 mspf        914 rendered frames
shader 14 (                                                 Per Pixel Wood Shader -   ps_3_0):    253 fps     3.9588 mspf       1264 rendered frames
shader 15 (                                                 Per Pixel Tile Shader -   ps_3_0):    223 fps     4.4758 mspf       1118 rendered frames
shader 16 (        Per Pixel Refraction and Reflection Shader with Phong Lighting -   ps_3_0):    248 fps     4.0387 mspf       1239 rendered frames
shader 17 (                             Per Pixel BRDF-Phong/Anisotropic Lighting -   ps_3_0):    304 fps     3.2899 mspf       1521 rendered frames

performance impact of heavy alpha blending

shader 18 (                                  Fur Shader With Anisotropic Lighting -   ps_3_0):     31 fps    32.6705 mspf        154 rendered frames

performance impact of multiple shaders switches

shader 19 (                                                    Combination Effect -   ps_3_0):    114 fps     8.8097 mspf        568 rendered frames

performance impact of dynamic flow control

shader 20 (                Dual Layer 8x8 PCF Shadow Mapping without Flow Control -   ps_3_0):     38 fps    26.5170 mspf        189 rendered frames
shader 21 (                   Dual Layer 8x8 PCF Shadow Mapping with Flow Control -   ps_3_0):     54 fps    18.3723 mspf        273 rendered frames

performance impact of floating point filtering

shader 22 (     High Dynamic Range Shader - low quality version without filtering -   ps_3_0):     91 fps    10.9341 mspf        458 rendered frames
shader 23 (            High Dynamic Range Shader - high quality with fp filtering -   ps_3_0):    104 fps     9.5935 mspf        522 rendered frames
shader 24 (         High Dynamic Range Shader - high quality without fp filtering -   ps_3_0):     68 fps    14.7518 mspf        340 rendered frames

performance impact of multiple render targets

shader 25 (  Per Pixel Edge Detection And Hatching Shader using 1 RT and 2 Passes -   ps_3_0):     57 fps    17.5713 mspf        285 rendered frames
shader 26 (   Per Pixel Edge Detection And Hatching Shader using 2 RTs and 1 Pass -   ps_3_0):     57 fps    17.5372 mspf        286 rendered frames

So damnit ... it is a real PS3.0 card ... that explains why your raytracer runs on my machine ... umpf ...

I leeched http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=32194 some time ago and this one claims to be PS3.0 only - it didn't work on my hardware ... so I believed that my card is a PS2.0 one ...

Anyway - your stuff is really great ... and it's so damn small :)

EDIT: Just leeched the above mentioned "Tracie" again - and it works now ... perhaps there've been some driver issues on my PC lately or they did a fix ... btw. this one blowed my mind ... it's awesome like hell ...
« Last Edit: November 03, 2007 by slippy »

Offline Voltage

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Re: What are you working on at the moment?
« Reply #132 on: November 05, 2007 »
Yeah it worked here Chris.  Nvidia GE 7300.  Ran at about 15 FPS (/EndGuess).  And it looks fantastic.
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Offline Rbz

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Re: What are you working on at the moment?
« Reply #133 on: November 07, 2007 »
@Chris: your ps3.0 raytrace worked fine here, but I can't tell you how much fast it is, how about display a FPS counter ???


About me, I'm working on 4kb sample synthesizer system, I don't want cheating (gm.dls) again :)




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Offline taj

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Re: What are you working on at the moment?
« Reply #134 on: November 07, 2007 »
@Chris: your ps3.0 raytrace worked fine here, but I can't tell you how much fast it is, how about display a FPS counter ???
About me, I'm working on 4kb sample synthesizer system, I don't want cheating (gm.dls) again :)

Which card is it Rbraz?
So far I've seen it working on x1900 - very fast and Nvidia 7900 - very slow. I also hear it works on x1650 and NV6600 but I can only imagine it crawls on the 6600 :-(.

This next bit isnt aimed at you Rbraz, its something I felt like saying for a while but your comment about rewriting your synth gives me a chance:
I dont like this idea that gm.dls is cheating. It seems some people in the demoscene decide and then tell everyone else, what you can and cant do. I know this whole idea that gm.dls is "cheating" starts with some key people. The same people will quite happily use system fonts of course or cubes from d3d. Others use spheres from OpenGL. Its no different. The speech api, some people decided was not a good thing so nobody uses that. Meanwhile import by ordinal the same small group of people decided was *bad*. Of course they use it behind the scenes (crinkler uses it when you use /RANGE) but yeah we won't mention it then because it suits them. These bloody fashions and trends set by a few  :stirrer: :stirrer: :stirrer: :stirrer: :stirrer: in the scene are just stupid and prevent innovation. I dont see a single scener searching for new ideas in Microsoft apis or new ways to use existing data. Its crazy. The point is - the OS IS the platform. The whole idea of 4k/64k doesnt work unless you accept that. Or we should admit it and all go back to software rendering and no more 3d libraries. I know people who play samples backwards from gm.dls so nobody knows they are using it! Its that silly. Or we should all start to thumb down anyone who uses gluSphere or d3dCube (or whatever the call is).
I will wear my cynical hat and say that the people discouraging use of gm.dls have a synth that doesnt use it. End of story. Lets not forget that Parsec uses gm.dls...

Rant over :-)
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Offline rain_storm

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Re: What are you working on at the moment?
« Reply #135 on: November 07, 2007 »
Good point there, really gives you something to think about. If it doesn't break any of the restrictions then its got a green light. At the end of the day that is all that matters.

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Offline benny!

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Re: What are you working on at the moment?
« Reply #136 on: November 07, 2007 »
...
I dont like this idea that gm.dls is cheating. It seems some people in the demoscene decide and then tell everyone else, what you can and cant do. I know this whole idea that gm.dls is "cheating" starts with some key people. The same people will quite happily use system fonts of course or cubes from d3d. Others use spheres from OpenGL. Its no different. The speech api, some people decided was not a good thing so nobody uses that. Meanwhile import by ordinal the same small group of people decided was *bad*. Of course they use it behind the scenes (crinkler uses it when you use /RANGE) but yeah we won't mention it then because it suits them. These bloody fashions and trends set by a few  :stirrer: :stirrer: :stirrer: :stirrer: :stirrer: in the scene are just stupid and prevent innovation. I dont see a single scener searching for new ideas in Microsoft apis or new ways to use existing data. Its crazy. The point is - the OS IS the platform. The whole idea of 4k/64k doesnt work unless you accept that. Or we should admit it and all go back to software rendering and no more 3d libraries. I know people who play samples backwards from gm.dls so nobody knows they are using it! Its that silly. Or we should all start to thumb down anyone who uses gluSphere or d3dCube (or whatever the call is)
....

So f*ckin true. Wise words of a clever mind !
K++
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Offline Rbz

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Re: What are you working on at the moment?
« Reply #137 on: November 08, 2007 »
@Chris: You are completely right, I just forgot to quote that "cheating" word, and thanks for your thoughts about this :)

Anyway, I'm finding hard to convince a musician to use those gm samples without any post process (LFO , low/high pass filter, etc) which in some way I agree  :-\  , and I didn't found a way to do those effects on gm samples compatible with my player method  :(

I'm just trying to make all those things work together and perhaps create better sound, but of course this will take some time...
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Offline taj

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Re: What are you working on at the moment?
« Reply #138 on: November 09, 2007 »
@Chris: You are completely right, I just forgot to quote that "cheating" word, and thanks for your thoughts about this :)

I want to be 100% clear , in no way was my rant aimed at your decision or your post.
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Offline va!n

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Re: What are you working on at the moment?
« Reply #139 on: November 09, 2007 »
i am working on different projects... one very big one (where i am not alone and where i will/must learn C/CPP now for future developing) ... on the other site i started some different things... one hard project will be released hopefully at eastern, where we need fast FFT for ^^
- hp EliteBook 8540p, 4 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 x64
- Asus P5Q, Intel Q8200, 6 GB DDR2, Radeon 4870, Windows 8.1 x64
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