I was looking at some comments over at Intro-Inferno (sorry you may need an account over there to view these comments)
http://www.intro-inferno.com/production.php?id=4563 (http://www.intro-inferno.com/production.php?id=4563)
and this cracktro was coded by a really good friend of mine, all his cracktros seem to get really heavy criticism and I don't think that it's all relevant.
People getting worked up about simple intros are denying their roots, scene came from cracktros. When I first got my Amiga I swapped, I had a good friend who was in several really famous groups, his handle was Mr.T and I used to get all the latest things from the groups he was in, namely Skid Row, Razor 1911, Nemessis, 0 day old stuff which I could write and get fast foreign demos.
I never played a game, I used to take the cracktro off the disk and I kept them all. I didn't care about the games.
I could see the beauty and elegance in even a simple sine scroll with a nice copperlist, hell I have over 3,000 amiga cracktros here on my PC!!!! 206 mb of them, no duplicates, all with screen shots. In truth I am a cracktro afficionado and I'd wait for the latest releases, not for the game, but if it was a big release I knew that the group would have a new cracktro.
I can't understand why people deny thier roots and criticise todays release groups for trying to keep the old spirit alive by releasing some simple and elegant intro with thier ISO.
Just check any Electric Druggies prod over at Intro-Inferno, there are usually some sort of nonsense comments.
And why have I posted this?
Well, Widow Maker tells me that he is pissed off with people who don't understand what he is trying to achieve and is thinking of quitting coding.
I know how he feels, I've felt the same way myself at times, I'm lucky that there is this nice community here to keep me busy and happy, but tbh I hae made crack intros myself and I have no desire to make any more at the moment either.
Ffs people registering over there with some fake account just to give a product that is a 1:1 conversion 1/10 or some blind artist who can't draw a letter in proportion having the cheek to talk BULL and critique other people's artwork.
Pah!
@Shockwave:
Cannot understand those comments either. But I think this is more of a general problem.
You are right. Most ppl nowadays dont know the roots of the demoscene. And the roots
are without a doubt in the cracktros.
But the younger generation often don't know cracktros anymore. If they get in contact
with the scene - they see polished productions like the ones from farbrausch ( which are
indeed technical masterpieces ). In comparision to those productions - of course it is rather
easy to say that a cracktro containing a sinus and copperbar sucks.
Not knowing cracktros and if ppl didnt grow up with them - it really might me hard to under-
stand what cracktros mean to older sceners.
Personally I love cracktros because of the whole robin hood spirit and mysterious atmosphere
they create ... hmm ... and nowadays they are represent an own way of digital art. Sadly,
the majority may think that a cracktro is just a poor intro...
Just ignore them. Anyone who is anyone knows they're idiots.
Jim
@benny! i could not have put it better myself :goodpost:
Quote from: sarek2k on July 23, 2007
@benny! i could not have put it better myself :goodpost:
Thanks for the feedback, mate. It is sometimes quite hard to express feelings in
a non native language. Good to hear that you like my point of view !
Quote
Not knowing cracktros and if ppl didnt grow up with them - it really might me hard to under-
stand what cracktros mean to older sceners.
@benny!
That is the point! I can watch a cracktro a 1000 times. The Farbrausch demo I look once maybe twice. But there never is the feeling of an cracktro. We must be sick. ;)
Perhaps it was a bit of a rant on my part, I care about those little intros though and I've been round the block a few times and had my bashings on the various download portals, but when I see these thoughtless comments destroying potential it really rankles me.
Perhaps these people would be happier if todays groups just packaged a diz file with thier ISO and have done with it, cracktros could then be allowed to die and todays effect junkies could be happy.
Quote from: Positron on July 24, 2007
@benny!
That is the point! I can watch a cracktro a 1000 times. The Farbrausch demo I look once maybe twice. But there never is the feeling of an cracktro. We must be sick. ;)
Nothing sick about it, it's just a matter of taste. FR demos like you say only prove that they have the best demotool in the scene to me.. To other people groups like these are the meaning of the scene. I don't download much of that sort of stuff any more. I hope WM doesn't quite making intros though as I know he's pissed off about it.
For someone who put thump down on people who make diffcult demo is that I think the person is either jeaious or demo rival or just plain idiots who doesnt know what the demo is about or how hard is to code a diffcult demo.
I hope I know what I am talking unless I missing somethings
Quote from: Positron on July 24, 2007
...
@benny!
That is the point! I can watch a cracktro a 1000 times. The Farbrausch demo I look once
maybe twice. But there never is the feeling of an cracktro. We must be sick. ;)
So true ;)
Quotescene came from cracktros
I beg to differ, it all started with a box with some flashing LEDs on it. And perhaps a radio sitting next to it. All of which was before there was even any software to crack.
Quote from: Hotshot on July 24, 2007
For someone who put thump down on people who make diffcult demo is that I think the person is either jeaious or demo rival or just plain idiots who doesnt know what the demo is about or how hard is to code a diffcult demo.
I hope I know what I am talking unless I missing somethings
Farbrausch has fantastic coders, no doubt! But to look at there demos is not the same as looking a cracktro. I can't discribe, it's I kind of feeling!?!
It's not against Farbrausch or there skills!
It's not really about cracktros themselve i guess but it's more oldschool <> newschool. The fact is cracktros belong to the past, to the oldschool culture. Now, I'm sad about those comments but none are insulting...i can't delete them. What I can't understand is why the hell they comment something they don't like, they don't understand!!! There is no point in reading critics in papers if they guy has no knowledge and understanding on the subject!
I like those intros/cracktros with those nice oldschool effects (the text routine on that one is really nice by the way) and as many of you I've been keeping old floppies just for the intros on them..and I could watch them in loop, several times...even years after! It has a feeling some newschool prods will never have. It's really hard to explain and I might seem dumb to young people (listen to the old :p).
I just wish it won't affect the coders and won't stop anyone willing to code a crackto-like!
Now, the production had some nice comments too! so, let's be positive: there are indeed people loving them, and that what widow maker should keep in mind!
Quote from: .:] Druid [:. on July 24, 2007
...
Now, the production had some nice comments too! so, let's be positive: there are indeed people
loving them, and that what widow maker should keep in mind!
I can totally second that :goodpost:
I beg to differ.
I grew with the Vic20, Amstrad, Atari and Amiga in the early-mid 80's. I watched and liked cracktros at the time : they were really cool code, gfx & music wise for their respective machines. But today's cracktro, at least the few I've seen, don't live up to the standard set 15-20 years ago.
Seeing copper bars on a badass PC doesn't bring tears in my eyes, it simply raise my eye brow. OTOH seeing copper bars on an Atari or Amiga, now that's different.
Also, regarding conversions, I must say I don't really see the point of converting/porting a prod to a more powerful machine. Where's the fun and the challenge ? But, again, if some one ports an Amiga/Atari prod to C64, Oric, ZX, Amstrad and I'll happily raise my thumb.
Quote from: p01 on July 24, 2007
I beg to differ.
I grew with the Vic20, Amstrad, Atari and Amiga in the early-mid 80's. I watched and liked cracktros
at the time : they were really cool code, gfx & music wise for their respective machines. But today's
cracktro, at least the few I've seen, don't live up to the standard set 15-20 years ago.
Seeing copper bars on a badass PC doesn't bring tears in my eyes, it simply raise my eye brow. OTOH
seeing copper bars on an Atari or Amiga, now that's different.
Also, regarding conversions, I must say I don't really see the point of converting/porting a prod to a more
powerful machine. Where's the fun and the challenge ? But, again, if some one ports an Amiga/Atari
prod to C64, Oric, ZX, Amstrad and I'll happily raise my thumb.
In the past, the challenging part of cracktros wasn't the cracktro itself. It was the removal of the copy
protection and releasing 0dayz warez. But that didn't fascinate me. It was more the robin hood feeling
of an underground movement described above.
Cracktros, at least for me, didn't push the hardware to its limits. On Amiga we had MegaDemos to squeeze
cool fx out of the computer. Don't get me wrong - I do not say that a mindblowing fx doesnt fit into a crack-
tro - I just think this is not a must.
As I said above - a cracktro should create a certain mood / atmosphere ( at least for me ). It needs a bit
of everything : code, music, design, right scroller etc. Thats the challenging and hardest part ... and it is
cool to see that there are some present releases which bring back some memories!
//EDIT: Have a look at this thread as well : http://dbfinteractive.com/index.php?topic=1168.msg17478#msg17478 (http://dbfinteractive.com/index.php?topic=1168.msg17478#msg17478)
Quote from: Shockwave on July 23, 2007
I was looking at some comments over at Intro-Inferno (sorry you may need an account over there to view these comments)
[...]
Well, Widow Maker tells me that he is pissed off with people who don't understand what he is trying to achieve and is thinking of quitting coding.
I know how he feels, I've felt the same way myself at times, I'm lucky that there is this nice community here to keep me busy and happy, but tbh I hae made crack intros myself and I have no desire to make any more at the moment either.
I understand better now what's happens with the Oldskool compo...
(and on Pouet with the scoopex remake...)
checkmate
:rip:
QuoteIn the past, the challenging part of cracktros wasn't the cracktro itself. It was the removal of the copy
protection and releasing 0dayz warez. But that didn't fascinate me. It was more the robin hood feeling
of an underground movement described above.
Fair enough. But cracking and making a cracktros are two different things. Although a good cracktro can communicate the 'robin hood' feeling and make 'justice' to the good work done by the cracker(s).
QuoteCracktros, at least for me, didn't push the hardware to its limits. On Amiga we had MegaDemos to squeeze
cool fx out of the computer. Don't get me wrong - I do not say that a mindblowing fx doesnt fit into a crack-
True, only a few pushed the hardware but at least they were at the level of average screens of the time. One thing we can't really say about today's cracktros.
Quote from: p01 on July 25, 2007
...True, only a few pushed the hardware but at least they were at the level of average screens
of the time. One thing we can't really say about today's cracktros.
Absolutely right here p01. Although this also counts for nowadays 64kb intro e.g. But speaking
of cracktros I am happy that we have ppl like Hitchikr, Alpha One and of course Widow Maker ;)
Its tough to work hard on a project and have people criticize it. But I would say that anyone releasing stuff to the public should be ready for the critics, both legitimate and lame. Been there and got angry at some remarks on my work. I would say to Widow Maker and anyone else that is doing creative work, do what you like to do, do it the best you can, and use legitimate criticism to help you improve and ignore the lame remarks. As far as cracktros go, I enjoy some and think some are just boring, same as hi tech demos. The cracktro that Shockwave was refering to I made comments that I didn't like it because: #1 I didnt think the logo fit the cracktro. #2 I think rotating object and starfields are boring. The text writer was good. On the otherhand I thought that one done for Skid Row http://www.intro-inferno.com/production.php?id=4917 (http://www.intro-inferno.com/production.php?id=4917) was good because it was a bit different from the usual, most purist cracktro peeps didnt like it. So go figure. If you want to keep the purists happy keep doing sinus scrollers with starfields and all the rest of the usual stuff cause thats what they like. But mostly do what you like and enjoy it.
What a subject!
Lets face it, these arguments do not just apply to cracktros. Theres a stupid subsection of the scene (some very famous) who believe they have the right to tell others what to do - how to express themselves. You shouldn't do cracktros copies, do a 4k not 1k, don't use oldskool design etc. Worse even when you do a great job of your thing (a cracktro COPY eg) someone will be either so ignorant or so jealous as you will get destroyed anyway.
I agree with druid, if you don't get it, don't comment. Unfortunately thats far too mature for some.
But back to cracktros. In a sense I agree with P01: watching a spinning cube on a PC just doesn't do it for me. I don't care how nicely the text moves in a sin wave, its all been done and on much more resource constrained platforms. I don't see the "Robin Hood" spirit you guys do. For me cracktros were a way of showing just how brilliant people were, not only can they crack the title, but now, look at this in your face graphics like you never saw. It was bragging. It was my cock is bigger than your cock. But now its "history", "respect".
Not that I'd go to II and give a bad vote - whats the point, I obviously don't get it. I just want to emphasise that there are some of us who dont and never will get modern cracktros.
But if you think its unique to cracktros...well I dont think so. Theres a guy at Pouet for example who simply doesnt like small productions - waffle. Always criticises them for irrelevant reasons (no design in 1k for example). He doesn't get it and never will. Yet continues to post. Hes not the only one but hes the most "active" hater.
In the end, there are some of us, like your firend shockie, you and me, who enjoy a certain niche element of the scene most. Others often don't get it. They wont get it. Tell your friend not to stop coding. Just stop releasing in formal ways. No matter how good it gets, the best the haters will do is ignore if they think they will look ridiculous because your prod really is good. Its an uphill fight and its not worth it. Focus on the pixels, not the co-called, scene.
Very wise words of a guy I really do respect.
:goodpost: and K++ !!!
In the old days the limits were always being pushed in demos, there were not many cracktros that had those amazing effects.. I can think of only a few that had groundbreaking code but god damn it, they had atmosphere.
A simple cracktro can convey still that atmosphere which those beautiful old ones had.
These days there are too many people in the scene who automatically go to a cracktro and talk shit or download a 1kb that is a massive accomplishment and thumb it down because it's a 1kb.
It happens with lots of different types of production.
It's cool to concentrate on the pixels and ignore the bullshit but when it affects the people who work with you on these things and you can see these thoughtless and stupid comments causing people to want to give up drawing logos, writing music and even coding, that's when it gets up my nose.
There are several people who have posted in this thread that I know have become dissilusioned at the stupidity of certain people and have considered leaving their art (whatever type of thing they make) behind.
Some of these people go. They go forever and are lost to the scene.
Sure, if a product is shit it should get the criticism it deserves, but I don't understand why certain people will give something negative comment just because of what it is.
Like;
Stupid Cracktro shit.
Lame 1kb shit
Etc etc.
We've seen it all before, I don't expect this topic to change anything, this forum is not the scene, we have lots of scene people here, at least here people will take the time to appreciate the work that goes into something.
For example;
I have never coded a 64kb, I don't particulary like the category because to me this type of intro, they seem too similar to me, it is all about which demo group has the best intro tool these days, but I do appreciate the amazing work in data compression, texture and mesh generation, softsynths etc etc.. Therefore I look at the 64kb and ask myself if I like it compared to other 64kbs I have seen. I would comment on that basis only (although I'd rarely keep a 64kb on my HD as they just don't keep my interest for long).
I wouldn't thumb it down because it was 64kb.
I look at other things, some demos, totally massive! Huge, 20mb ++ of stuff and think to myself that it might as well be an AVI. Of course, a lot of these demos are highly polished masterpieces and consequently get the praise that they deserve.
What pisses me off is the wastage.
The scene is wasteful, it wastes talent and ruins it before it has the chance to develop into something beautiful.
So called elite coders who want to have the admiration of the scene beating down new talent and patronising those who are really good and could be a threat to them.
Apathetic and largely anonymous trolls that just talk shit and try to start arguments.
People who should know better (like waffle) who actually have a little bit of talent behaving like assholes because they see thier scene idols doing the same.
I am actually sorry to be involved in the scene but the problem I have is that coding runs in my blood now and I could never give up for good. I'd always come back. The thing is, back in the late eighties and early nineties it was still the same.
There was no internet portal to talk shit on of course, instead flame wars took place in scrolltexts , diskmags and on BBS's.. Strangely when at parties the differences were forgotten but at least back then, people who had no right to unfairly criticise were marked out to be the lamers that they were and largely ignored except by the other sad fuckers that swapped disks with them.
These days communication is unlimited and it's wrong to see people disheartened by people who say they care about the scene but are actually selfish and don't give a fuck about anyone except themselves.
And finally to me, a spinning cube over a starfield is no more difficult to code than a z buffered, textured one but it is much more beautiful because for a few minutes while I am watching it rotating around it takes me back to the time when I would wait happily for the post to hit the mat in the hall.
i havent read the full thread yet... but i really dislike that today ppl dont really know about the scene. Most ppl are thinking scene == hacking is easy as you can see in some cinema movies. What happen to the real warez scene today? Today kiddies buying the newest AudioCD or Vinyl, grabbing them as MP3 and releasing it as release-group... It may be nice that tihs stuff is available but i dont see here something with the scene most of us know from the old days, when people removed copy protection, added trainers and nearly every release had a nice cracktro in front of the product...
I think one reason that cracktros seems to die more and more is, that crackros on Amiga i.e has been added in front of a game on disks... There was just a "hidden" StartUp-Sequence in S/ folder.... most gamers didnt know anything about the StartUp-Sequence, where groups added their intro in front of the mainprogram (if it was a dos disk)... What i want say... Most releases has been NoDos Disk with so called TrackLoaders.... Its was not possible to remove the intro and directly loading the game without disasm and a lot of work). So people must look at the cracktro, even they dont wanted...
Today on PC programs/games contains of x files and subdirs... there is just one exe (the mainfile of game)... and maybe a small file (cracktro).... what do you think, does the normal gamer would start? Surly not the small file (cracktro) :(
Maybe release groups should link their cracktros diretly into the game as mainprogram.... So everybody must look to the cracktro and maybe the old idea of cracktros will come back to guys... One bad thing is, today everybody has another HW config instead on Amiga where has been A500, A1200 i.e. .... I think most people (including myself), would not really like the idea, to have an cracktro when starting a game or any app... (time is money and who the hell has really time today? i miss the old times!) .... Another point why linking cracktros diretly into to PC programs/games will not be accepted is following... What about updates/patches if the original exe has been modified and an linked cracktro? How safe is cracktro coded and is there possible spyware or trojaner inside? Today ppl thinks not like most of us in the 80th... Today nearly all seems to be a bad world... :(
I really get shocked, when i repair PCs and reinstalling windows and adding for example Fr-08, because its just to test DX 3D... Even when i say the peoples "hey its a product from the scene.... its just only 64k in size and all you see and hear is generated in realtime or at runtime on math..... people are saying things like... "ahhhh looks nice... how to play?" O.O or things like .... "please uninstall it to have more space on the HD... == hey, its 64k, this means 0,064 MB and its fits (using calculator) x times on a CD or DVD... == then people are looking like seeing an alien., saying wow.. ok just let it on the HD....
Very very often i hear people d/l and showing a 4k or 64k intro... "nice video... how do you manage to get it so tiny?" .... or things like... "thats all? its bull shit"..... today people know only numbers.... as bigger the number as better all things seems to be.... this starts at the CD-Rom 52x, 3,2 Ghz, DDR2 800 and so on.... :(
Its really sad... Does someone know the amiga game "Crack" and its crackro? ^^ This times was cool....
Really good posts you posted here, Shocky and va!n. I totally agree with you. And by
saying this I feel as sad as you when thinking about the old times.
Interesting idea about adding cracktros directly into the gamecode, va!n. So gamers are
forced to watch it. To be honest, I haven't seen any cracked games for ages ... no more
time - but this is interesting.
Hmm ... this topic makes me thinking about a possible future or alternatives ... maybe
there exists some other ways we do not think about yet ... hmm ...
Adding an intro to the executable part of the release would never happen nowadays but it is a nice thought.
Generally groups who use these intros want something that will compile easily and that they can change the infos and re-use it about 10 times.
I just read through this whole topic again and you know I still feel bad for the people who are put off the scene by some of the people who are involved in it.
Unfortunately in the scene I love and hate so much, some people have called thier jealousy, hubris and ignorance constructive criticism and made a virtue out of irresponsibility.
Quote from: Shockwave on July 27, 2007
some people have called thier jealousy, hubris and ignorance constructive criticism and made a virtue out of irresponsibility.
Hubris is such a good word, I had to look it up! Karma++ ;-)
From games to cracktros:
One thing, why adding cracktros intro the game-exe will not work or just make no sence... when we played on C64 or Amiga, people just know one release... there has been no updates like fix this and fix that bug... I had a lot of original amiga games with still some little bugs inside you can live with... one reason i collected cracked copies of my original games has been, the cracked games has been often fixed (!!!), packed from 2 to 1 disks, sometimes nice Trainers... This was a nice working world without any problems...
Today the game industrie are trying to release things as fast as possible.. even if they are full of bloddy bugs... they are saying no problem.... we must release the game fast to get in the production costs... and later will release tons of fixes... today everybody has internet, so it should be no problem...! O.O wtf... where are we living today? That is one reason, why i dont buyed yet one original game for PC! I must say, that i am not the gamer... i play maybe one time in a year with friends a game... but thats really all !
But back to topic, why it make no sence to link cracktros directly to the programm-executeable... If a cracking group link their intro to a mainprogram and all may work fine... what happens, if the game publisher release a program to patch the original mainprogram and checking if the file that has to been patched is valid or not (just by uising MD5 checksum or something)? You can patch your cracked version (because of the linked cracktro i.e.)
One way i would really like and possible a way that some elite cracking groups get very fame and bringing back the old tradition of cracktros could be following with some work... (its just an idea i have)....
For example a release group will crack and spread an 500 MB sized game that contains of 200 files.... (i must say, i absolutly dislike programs using tons of files!)... The releasegroup could try to fix some bugs (as in the good old amiga days), and releasing the game just only as 2 files (!) ... one mainprogram (its the cracktro and an own loader).... and one big datafile instead tons of files on HD... i would really like this way... (even the datafile could be just a rar or zip, where the loader load the needed stuff from, so people can change files inside the datafile ^^) just an idea but a lot of work...
From Cracktros to GameIntros:
Today games are often some Gigs in size... some games have very nice, amazing and long game intros as sequence (like video or realtime)... I really remember how people in the 80th are saying woowww coool, when there was a game with even just a few frames of an game intro animation! Everbody looked at it and people told about it! (its was the time where computers dont had read videos and all the so new time called multimedia shit, sorry)
Today nearly everybody is directly pressing ESC when seeing the first frame of a game intro... hello, whats going on with this new gamers generation? I think they just saying... ah a boring video, i dont need.. i want to kill them all... start the game O.O
People often have no idea how mutch time and work has been spend to game intros, so a lot of people are just irgnoring this.. i think here happens the same thing as to the old cracktro scene... sady..
Quote from: va!n on July 27, 2007
From games to cracktros:
But back to topic, why it make no sence to link cracktros directly to the programm-executeable... If a cracking group link their intro to a mainprogram and all may work fine... what happens, if the game publisher release a program to patch the original mainprogram and checking if the file that has to been patched is valid or not (just by uising MD5 checksum or something)? You can patch your cracked version (because of the linked cracktro i.e.)
Sorry to say but if your exe is cracked, patches won't work on it ... as the exe is not the same. That's why cracked updates always contains original exe to copy over the cracked exe, patch the game and copy the new crack over...well, it's just what i heard :whisper:
@.:] Druid [:.:
yes you are right... but i think there are some appz/games as copies available, where the cracking group doesnt needed to crack something (modify something on the program)... just maybe disasm the mainfile to code a keygen. So if you have such a app/game where the cracking group has linked an intro in front of the program, users may get in trouble when there are official updates/fixes available.
(just joking now... best would be, if companies directly adding an official cracktro to their appz/games of the warez group... hehe)
I did have a spell there when I felt like stopping my intro writing and letting things carry on without me. Surprising to me that some of the people who leap to the defense of the stupid critics are some of the same people who complained so bitterly in the past about having the same punisment inflicted on them.
I say if the intro is fucking crap let the flames fly but don't criticise it just for what it is. Cracktros are cracktros, seldom are they masterpieces of programming but hopefully most of them have the right level of ambience.
Quote from: WidowMaker on August 05, 2007
I did have a spell there when I felt like stopping my intro writing and letting things carry on without me. Surprising to me that some of the people who leap to the defense of the stupid critics are some of the same people who complained so bitterly in the past about having the same punisment inflicted on them.
I say if the intro is fucking crap let the flames fly but don't criticise it just for what it is. Cracktros are cracktros, seldom are they masterpieces of programming but hopefully most of them have the right level of ambience.
WM,
I think you are in error here.
Nobody defended the critics in this thread. If you think they did, read again, nobody is defending what happened to you. I did see people (including me - which is why I'm replying) say they don't get or don't like cracktros. Thats a COMPLETELY different issue from being the kind of arsehole who would vote one down because they don't like them.
I'm entitled not to like the thing your into, just as in return I don't expect you to get excited if I knock 10 bytes off something. I sure as hell don't expect you to give me 1/10 just because you dont like 1ks and the same is true in reverse. If that happened the person should be labelled arsehole.
Don't mistake an honest statement that I dont like cracktros with a defence of arseholishness...errr...well...you know.
Chris
And I never refered to any post in this thread Chris, I was talking about a general sort of thing that seemed to be happening on Intro - Inferno with certain people registering to deliberately downvote / troll because an intro was a certain type of intro. Or maybe it was more than that, it seemed trendy to go to Intro - Inferno and cause trouble for some reason with hatred from certain members posted at places like Pouet from time to time.
Personally I don't give a fuck what people say about my code, but it gets kind of difficult to find a gfx artist to work with you when they have all been demoralised for example. And yes, some people who commented over there I was a bit surprised at, same as I was amazed at the attitude of one so called elite scener at one of your 4ks' Chris.
This One (http://"http://www.intro-inferno.com/production.php?id=4483") Which puts what I mean more clearly I hope. I am not saying that my intros are anywhere near as good as your excellent 4k work by the way.. Half my routines belonged to Shock anyway.
In fact I would have prefered it had Shockwave not posted this thread at all but I can't complain as I was sitting in the same room as him when he did it I suppose. :carrot:
Anyway, peace and love and greetings to everyone, even the assholes. You make me appreciate the nice guys more.
Quote from: WidowMaker on August 05, 2007
And I never refered to any post in this thread Chris, I was talking about a general sort of thing that seemed to be happening on Intro - Inferno with certain people registering to deliberately downvote / troll because an intro was a certain type of intro.
Ah sorry then I'll say I was in error reading your post. If its any consolation, I look at the 7 months work ASD put into Lifeforce then look at the nonsense thumbs down on Pouet and realise that nobody is safe. You dont get honesty, or proper feedback in the scene. Not even ASD.
Quote from: WidowMaker on August 05, 2007
Personally I don't give a fuck what people say about my code, but it gets kind of difficult to find a gfx artist to work with you when they have all been demoralised for example. And yes, some people who commented over there I was a bit surprised at, same as I was amazed at the attitude of one so called elite scener at one of your 4ks' Chris.
This One (http://www.intro-inferno.com/production.php?id=4483)
(Corrected URL)
It can be difficult to stay in a group too - or to keep one going. I've experienced both.
I wasn't suprised by that "elite" scener at all. I'm amazed others couldn't see his attitude. It finally killed any desire I have to join the scene, but wont kill my desire to code. I'll go back to what I said at the start, pixels, not releases. I've come to realise that.
Good luck WM.
My point of view . . .
This goes out to everybody either on here or on intro inferno or even pouet for that matter . . . we all do what we do cos we like to! F!@k what other people think - my code is probably the worst ever but hey ho - I have enjoyed producing it so much.
If somebody likes the code then great! If they don't there is never any need to slag somebody elses work off just for the sake of slagging it off. That is just pathetic.
I love to see everybody and anybodys stuff - it gives me ideas and makes me want to try something out! Especially when guys post their source code - wow! It makes the task so much easier!
A good example of this for me was my parallax starfield - just a 2d starfield i mean . . . I could never grasp it, so gave up! Came onto here and Shockwave was doing one and posted the code, realised how he was doing it and hey ho - my own version came out . . . I was so pleased that I posted my version on here . . . people look and maybe use but NOBODY said it was crap! why? because this forum doesn't have twats or arseholes on it . . . (well maybe just me!!!)
I love (in a manly way - lol) all you guys (and gals) on here 'cos you all share and pass information on - not shite on each other . . .
Sorry about my rants . . . Drew