I wasn't too keen on even trying out FB since I am perfectly happy using Bmax, but Jon convinced me to at least give it one tryout and see what I thought. The one thing about it that I have taken interest in is that using TinyPTC you will have to do everything yourself rendering wise. So plot, lines, sprites, whatever will have to be manually coded. That was interesting, so I dug a little bit deeper into it and is helping Jon out with his graphics library and its getting to the point where it could really be used for something, so I am looking forward to see what we can do with it in terms of demos/intros. Its going to be retro looking which is another reason I like it, because thats what I like in demos. I don't care much for most new 3D demos, they just doesn't give me the same feeling as watching retro stuff. Its probably because I was there throughout the C64 and Amiga era and coding demos in ASM on them that I like it so much.