MacBook

[benny!]

Hi all,

I am thinking about buying a small notebook / subnotebook. Most of those small subnotebooks
(e.g. Sony Vaio's with 12,1" / 13.3" display) are relatively expensive from 1.500 - 2.000 Euros.
Primarily I need that notebook for using while travelling only. At home / work I have my normal
desktop PC running Windows.

Now, I discovered that MacBooks costs about 1.100 Euros which is relatively cheap in my eyes!?
So, I am thinking about buying one ...

Does anyone of you has some experience with the normal basic MacBook (Intel Core 2 Duo 2,0) ?

I would be interested espeically in the following fields :


- How long lasts the battery with normal usage ?

- What development environment is available on MacOS (Leopard) for programming in C/C++ ?

- Is it possible to play average 3D games on it ?

- Are there any other negative things to think about

- What do you think abou the new MacOS Leopard ? Are the requirements of Leopard to high to
be run on a normal MacBook?


Any experiences / suggenstions are welcome !!!

[Jim]

Don't become a Mactard!  (Sorry, wrong forum I know)

Since Mac OS is now Unix, you can use gcc to develop programs.  It has OpenGL, and you can use many of the Linux development tools, IDEs, Debuggers etc.  So, a popular setup would be GCC+Eclipse+GDB.

Not that any of us will be able to run anything you make

Jim

[taj]

- Are there any other negative things to think about

Yes. One major disadvantage is that afterwards you will feel dirty when you have to use a PC. However the guilty thrill of downloading random software and running it will keep you coming back even though you know you shouldn't. You wont be able to tell your PC online friends that you use a Mac or your Mac freinds that you use a PC. Gradually you will become more and more withdrawn, refusing to speak to people but continuing to download and run PC software each and every day. One day , you will know you have a problem but it will be too late. You will be knee deep in a mixture of Mac "design" and "How to" books and empty PC anti-virus boxes. It will be too late to confess and in desperation you will try to gte the two to work as one, in a desperate attempt to alleviate your feeling of isolation. You will download mac emulators for the PC and connect the two via your "home network" only to find they do not and will not ever be compatible. Slowly you will descend into schizophrenia and be found in a home for the bewildered years from now, humming the intel inside ditty as you paint white and pastel landscapes.


Still, its worth it if you ask me.

[benny!]

@JIM+CHRIS:
lol ... you guys are cool. I actually do not really want to become a "Mactard" ;-)
I just try to see it as objective as possible - so that I get relatively nice set of hard-
ware for a relatively good price. Btw, I can install windows on that MacBook without probs
AFAIK.

Nevertheless, since I am not travelling that much I think I won't use the MacBook that
often anyway. Being at home/work - I really prefer to work with my Windows Desktop
PC (preferably with 2 monitors).

When it comes to coding I also target Windows in the first place, just because of what you
also say - that the majority of pepole can run my Windwos programs. But I tested some
frameworks which also supports MacOS. So in that case, I could test / transfer the C++
code I wrote on a Windows system primarily for Windows machines to the MacOS
just as an addition.

So, acutally the gain of a Windows notebook is just to have a mobile Windows system - thats
all. Since I would use a notebook primarily for some office work / internet stuff I am not
sticked to Windows. That's why I thought it would be cool to have some additional gain if I
spend some bucks for a notebook. And after watching this movie of the new Leopard OS for
Mac - I think it would expand a bit my horizon to actually work with another OS than Windows.

IMHO, it has some brilliant and futuristic features. Even it looks maybe a bit childish or too
polished for us developer - I think those features are very helpful for normal users. But
have a look by yourselves :

http://www.apple.com/de/macosx/guidedtour/medium.html


@Chris:
I really do like your way of writing - it is so funny and cool to read it. Ever thought about writing
a little science fiction / humouristic novel

...
Still, its worth it if you ask me.

So, you think its worth is because the hardware is not that bad at all ?

sorry for so much text 

[Agent Smith]

Hi benny!

I was originally going to get a sexy black MacBook, but in the end I went with a MacBook Pro as the MacBook's integrated graphics hardware isn't really up to running top-end 3D games. I switched to Mac when Apple switched to Unix (Darwin is basically an open-source port of BSD Unix).

I currently have installed a 250GB HDD, set up for triple book with OS X/Windows XP Home/Ubuntu Linux.
Battery lasts about 4-5 hrs normal usage, plus I bought a spare for those long flights/train trips.

There's a kick-ass dev environment called Xcode that comes free with OS X. It's an IDE for gcc with debugger (GUI front end for gdb), CHUD profiling tools, graphical GUI builder, etc. All good stuff. However, I'm a command-line junkie, so I tend to use vi with gcc most of the time. Note that Objective-C is the lingua franca for OS X if you want to do any serious applications programming using the native Cocoa frameworks, although you can still use C++ (if you're really that much of a masochist).

I haven't upgraded to Leopard yet, I'm still using Tiger (10.4). Only issue for x-platform dev is I can't write to my Windows partition directly from OS X (it's read-only). I can read both OS X and Windows partitions from Linux, but I think with the latest Ubuntu upgrade I'll be able to write to them as well (not sure if Leopard will also allow this).

Also, I haven't been able to compile TinyPTC yet for OS X (still haven't got around to sorting it out) but it works fine on my old PowerBook (PPC) Mac.

Bear in mind that I haven't got the lastest Core 2 Duo edition (mine's an earlier 2 GHz Core Duo) but one other issue is that the GPU is deliberately underclocked on OS X to keep the temperature under control. However when you boot Windows, it runs at full speed. I believe some users have experienced overheating problems when running the latest 3D games for long periods. You can download utilities to reduce the clock speed, but I've played Half-Life 2 for long periods without any problems, although the fan does rev like crazy. Not sure if this has been addressed in the latest hardware editions.

[benny!]

@Agent Smith:

Thanks a lot for answering. Actually that sounds all very good. It's nice to have a free
oppurtunity to code with a C++ IDE. The acutal CPU set of the normal MacBook I am about
to buy is the Intel Core 2 Duo 2,0. So I guess that will do for my needs.

What I read so far - even Leopard should run on that device without big problems.


@all:
So, any other pro / cons about MacBook. So far I really think I might order one next week,
even if Jim is doing the following with me :

 

and Chris is about to :

 

I try to not to

 

even if I walk like this to the local Mac Store

 

 

[taj]

...
Still, its worth it if you ask me.

So, you think its worth is because the hardware is not that bad at all ?

sorry for so much text 

I mean Macs are brilliant and if its aimed at email, writing, work and a little programming n the side, they are way better than PCs. For me its not the hardware, its the user experience. Vista looks like a poor copy of Macs in my eyes. My current work means I'm into user interfaces. I admire Mac equipment very much. Functionally it comes a weak second, but in comparison of use? Mac rules. Always wanted to get one of my own but cant afford both so in the end I go for PCs. Good luck.

[benny!]

Ok. Thanks for your opinions guys. Think I might order one next week.

If so, I'll post some reports.

[Jim]

Good for you...you obviously decided before you asked that you want something different
I can tell you that no matter what happens, you've done the right thing.
A few weeks ago I started a contract programming C#.  You wouldn't believe how prejudiced I was against that language.  Anyway, now I wouldn't consider writing a Window GUI app in any other language and in the near future I'm going to find out how much DirectX I can get at from there.  Might be a waste of time, like your mac but I'm learning every step of the way, which is awsome!

Jim

[benny!]

Good for you...you obviously decided before you asked that you want something different
I can tell you that no matter what happens, you've done the right thing.

Not really. I am about to buy a MacBook - but since I do not know many ppl personally (except
our graphic designer at work) I wanted to have more feedback to that. So I though, if there
wouldnt be any big negative point which were reported by someone - I am going to give it a
try - and thats finally what I am going to do I think.

A few weeks ago I started a contract programming C#.  You wouldn't believe how prejudiced I
was against that language.  Anyway, now I wouldn't consider writing a Window GUI app in any
other language and in the near future I'm going to find out how much DirectX I can get at from
there.  Might be a waste of time, like your mac but I'm learning every step of the way, which
is awsome!
...

Yeah. C# is a very productive way of coding (RAD). Especially with Microsoft's GUI Designer.
Actually its more the whole NET Framework as you can also program it with C++ (see this
article here).
I did some basic stuff / research on C# and ManagedDirectX as well - seems to be pretty pro-
ductive, too.

[taj]

[
@Chris:
I really do like your way of writing - it is so funny and cool to read it. Ever thought about writing
a little science fiction / humouristic novel

I used to write as a hobby Benny. Infact the reason I didn't buy a Mac years ago is that my chosen screenwriting software didn't run on Macs (odd but true). That was back in the day when you couldn't run windows software on Macs of course. I hated PCs for many years, to an extent I still do, I am, and always will be a Unix workstation guy at heart. Still the world has moved on...

Chris

[benny!]

@chris:
Cool - you really notice that by reading your posts chris that you are more into
writing novels than the normal forum poster here. Very interesting. Is there any
stuff published online yet ?

[benny!]

Grrrrrrrrrrrrr ... I ordered my MacBook 10 days ago. It is not yet delivered. I called the supplier
and he says that it may take a while and he cannot give a concrete delivery date. I cancelled
that order because I need a good Notebook next week.   

I searched today in some local stores and no one has a normal MacBook in stock - now I am
thinking about buying a normal notebook. 

So, sorry for asking questions about Mac and maybe now not buying one !!!

[benny!]

Ok. Chapter closed. Since I really needed to have a notebook - I just bought at
a local computer store a SONY VAIO (CR21). So, guess I stay a Windoze geek 

Sorry for wasting your time - I still think it would have been a nice experience to
test the MacOS but the ordering process and support from the hotlines were rather
frustrating ... so ... who cares

[Jim]

That's weak on behalf of your Apple supplier.   Maybe next time
The VAIOs are superb laptops, if a little pricey...

Jim

[benny!]

Yup. After some work with it - the VAIO seems to be a rather good alternative.

Pretty much the same width/height/length and weight as the standard MacBook,
but a bigger display (14"), 160GB HD (instead of 80GB MacBook Standard) and it
has a DVD burner.

Fortunately, I also got a nice discount on that VAIO (after having some argues)
and now it is the same price like the MacBook Standard.

Well, maybe I recheck the Apple Computer in two, three years - and re-open this
thread 

But for now this chapter is closed for me ... back to work