Shmup game work in progress.

[Pixel_Outlaw]

I've decided to take some time from demos to work on a fresh new shmup. This game is much like a puzzle game bread with a shmup.

You must use the fire button (Z) to shoot enemy blocks into enemy clusters. There is a nice emergent pattern here. If you want to score big, you must create bigger clusters. The clusters gain a bit of firepower too which really makes the game difficulty ramp as you rack up the possible points. I think this creates a nice risk vs reward system.

This is just a bare bones proof of concept for now. Just programmer graphics too. The README file explains what the finished project will look like.

[Shockwave]

It works nice and smooth, it took me a moment to realise what was going on, and that is to make rectangles.

I don't know about bullet hell style games, I like a lot of action on the screen, but I know that these games have a particular fan base.

The only real sin I can see at this point is the controls.
If you are in space and you stop moving in one direction, there should be some kind of gradual slowdown, this just stops at the moment.

The concept is interesting though to combine a puzzle game with a shooter.

[Pixel_Outlaw]

Thanks Shockwave, honestly if I implimented ANY sort of inertia I would be ran out of town on a pike. It sort of ruins precision in most shooters.

Thanks for taking time to try the basic concept. It should reach full game status very shortly then it will be time to add more polish to the graphics and sound.

[Shockwave]

Do people really hate having intertia? If inertia / momentum whatever is properly implimented it gives your player a good feeling "weight" which has to make a good impact on playtability? Especially if its totally predictable... Unless.

Unless this is going to be a "bullet hell" sort of game, I have to be honest I havent played enough of these to be any kind of expert

[Pixel_Outlaw]

Well this is an interesting discussion. 

Honestly when I'm "in the zone" I like to have full control of the ship at all times. Many other shooter players agree. The thing about these kinds of shooters is that often you will have VERY limited space between the bullets and you just can't afford to let your ship drift or wait for it to position itself anywhere you like. Most of the later levels in some intense games require pixel level precision, you simply can't afford to have the ship taking ages to get to a safe spot. I could recommend some free bullet hell shmups via PM if you like.  I know that this site is mostly here to celebrate demos and I do appreciate your time. This is just another facet of my programming life that has been on hold for some time.

[the2bears]

Do people really hate having intertia? If inertia / momentum whatever is properly implimented it gives your player a good feeling "weight" which has to make a good impact on playtability? Especially if its totally predictable... Unless.

Unless this is going to be a "bullet hell" sort of game, I have to be honest I havent played enough of these to be any kind of expert

Yes, most players really hate inertia.  It's one of those things, that if done correctly is ok at best, but it adds nothing.  Here's the anecdotal evidence   I've heard many complaints of games with inertia, but never a request to put it in.  Until now 

Inertia can, of course, be deterministic in a game and very predictable, but it's still "drift", and seems to be offensive to the player's need for complete control.  When I "stop", I want to stop right away, etc.  More so as you say in bullet hell games.  Part of it though, comes down to the relationship of the rendered game to the player's eye.  When I "tap" left, I see on the screen the pixels, and I want to move exactly one over.  No more, no less, each time the same without a floating point rounding error.

Realistic physics are not always desired in games.  Mario doesn't jump with physics, there's a determined arc for his path.  Part of this might be that the brain interprets 2D movement differently from 3D... though I think age is a factor here.  I grew up in 2D games, and I cannot really get into many 3D ones (re: game play) as I think, like languages, there's a time for the brain to learn certain functions.

Anyway, I'm only adding more opinion to the discussion.  But it's opinion born from many similar discussions and examples.

Bill

[Shockwave]

Realistic physics are not always desired in games.  Mario doesn't jump with physics, there's a determined arc for his path.  Part of this might be that the brain interprets 2D movement differently from 3D... though I think age is a factor here.  I grew up in 2D games, and I cannot really get into many 3D ones (re: game play) as I think, like languages, there's a time for the brain to learn certain functions.

 

Thanks for the thoughts, as I recall though, every mario / wonderboy / giana sisters / sonic etc platform always had a period in which the player had to lose it's momentum when changing direction or even stopping.

Thinking back to the same era, there was a certain arcade machine called Defender and that took it even further with a considerable lag between turning.. I just wonder with todays high resolution screens whether allowing the player to drift a few pixels before stopping is a crime.

I have written some very intensive shooting games myself and always added weight to the player, even taking many many hours just tweaking the movement of a player so that it felt properly weighted.

Maybe I am showing my age though, to me being able to change direction instantly just feels a little bit odd and looks better to the observer than it feels to me, the player.

[Pixel_Outlaw]

I've almost got a basic engine going now I may have something to post later this evening depending on how my college courses go.
I try not to make games that will take me longer than a month to complete because a month is about my max attention span for completing a project.

[Motorherp]

If you need to add inertia to make a shmup fun then it doesn't have enough bullets.  Case closed 

[Shockwave]

If you need to add inertia to make a shmup fun then it doesn't have enough bullets.  Case closed 

I'll leave it to the purists then. 

[Pixel_Outlaw]

Ok I've managed to much together some actual game this time, there are levels and lives. I do plan to tweak things a bit aswell as add some new features. You have to make big clusters to get big points. I'll edit the file on the first post to save forum space. Please try the attached.

Here is a very rushed vid. (yes I'm playing here)

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0DEzN_77tw[/youtube]

[hellfire]

Sorry pal, but I'm totally not getting the point of "making rectangles".
Even more, I'm *somehow* replicating those things that shoot at me to make them disappear
Do you plan some kind of story behind it that makes the concept comprehensible?

[Pixel_Outlaw]

Sorry pal, but I'm totally not getting the point of "making rectangles".
Even more, I'm *somehow* replicating those things that shoot at me to make them disappear
Do you plan some kind of story behind it that makes the concept comprehensible?

Hehe, just an abstract puzzle game. Tetris is along similar lines. The point of the game is to simply outscore your human opponents. I'm a HUGE fan of score based games. I wish to go back to the era of playing for points and bragging rights. I guess my games are from a more simple time when the story took a backseat to the game. I guess the same could be said of older boardgames.

Why am I moving checkers across red squares? Why am I making x's or o's in an attempt to line three in a row? Why am I trying to guess the sequence of colored pegs the "Mastermind" has designed? Why am I placing red or white stones on a grid while trying to capture the enemy?

The point is not really to understand why you are doing what you are doing but more to defeat your opponents within a ridged rule structure. I simply provide some rules and a situation for a player to conquer. I make video games in the purest sense of the word "game".

[Pixel_Outlaw]

I have the levels mostly done now. Each of the three different blocks has a slightly different fire pattern.

You can sort of get a feel for the pace of the game. I still have yet to impliment bosses. You can see some of my twitch reflex here.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRQJ1Sc4xt8[/youtube]

You may download the current build (lacking bosses atm)

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[Hotshot]

it is good
hope u keep updating it

 

p.s. yes I do love shoot em up as I still have lots of shoot em up on my ps 2

[Shockwave]

For me, too many bullets and the controls feel wrong, it needs explosions and the craft feels like it has no weight.

I know, I know, I know that this is a "bullet hell" game, but I can't think of one of them that I have ever enjoyed playing. I think these things are a matter of taste and I am sure that there will be many people who like it but it's just not my cup of tea. Sorry.

[Xone]

Delayed response, but I thoughts I'd give my few cents, it's an interesting aspect.

I'd have to agree with SW, i'd also prefer to see it with some feedback on the motion.
The reason some people don't like inertia is because control is taken away from the player momentarily for the sake of physics realism (which can add extra challenge), a balance can be struck between the two though.
It's definately a matter of personal pref' I guess.

Early games like 'Galactic Plague' had no inertia and it makes them feel very old-skool, which isn't always a bad thing !
Sometimes simplicity works best, too many games often fall foul of being too physically real these days.

Games like 'Exile' (which I personally couldn't get enough of at the time) on the Amiga gave control a whole
new meaning to gameplay physics, the whole game was centered around weight and gravity simulation which gave
it some fascinating (unique at the time) gameplay features:
Ref: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=r2Kpz5dVmLg

Personally, I'd add inertia with damping, so the ship halts relatively quick, but not instantly. As shocky pointed out, it feels
a little wooden. Either this, or you could add a method to smooth the user control itself, ignoring world physics.
Space scenes usually benefit from some kind of inertia.

Keep improving on it, it has potential 

[Hotshot]

Keep it up and You will get there in the end

[slinks]

For me, too many bullets and the controls feel wrong, it needs explosions and the craft feels like it has no weight.

I think explosions are missing as well. However, as for the weight, that's really just an illusion caused by the incomplete sprites. Normally in shmp games, the sprite has a few frames of animation to show the ship 'banking' from side to side, with one wing tilting towards the player and one away, and increased/decreased exhaust flame to simulate exceleration. Through this, the illusion of 'control' is established, it makes the crafts movement appear controlled as opposed to just being 'pushed' by forces, as it looks now. Obviously requires some suspension of disbelief on behalf of the player, but the effect is much more convincing.

Impressive game Pixel, could be a classic when it's finished.

[Pixel_Outlaw]

For me, too many bullets and the controls feel wrong, it needs explosions and the craft feels like it has no weight.

Normally in shmp games, the sprite has a few frames of animation to show the ship 'banking' from side to side, with one wing tilting towards the player and one away, and increased/decreased exhaust flame to simulate exceleration. Through this, the illusion of 'control' is established, it makes the crafts movement appear controlled as opposed to just being 'pushed' by forces, as it looks now. Obviously requires some suspension of disbelief on behalf of the player, but the effect is much more convincing.

Bingo. I was going to add some banking animations in the final product and see if people liked it better but now you have ruined my plot. This is an old version the new version has not yet been released and has what I like to call proto bosses. I am too wrapped  up in college right now but I plan to finish it during Christmas vacation. I have toned down the bullets and created a more interesting difficulty curve. I have also had a fellow pixel artist redo my sprites because I got sick of looking at them.